"Had you not met the child you are raising, would you miss her?" -This has got to be one of the most ridiculous questions I've ever seen.
"Would she seek you out or cry for you had she not been adopted by you or not been adopted at all?" - Oh wait, this is the most ridiculous question.
Kids sitting in foster care or orphanages (or stuck with crap parents who resent their existence) are most certainly crying out for someone to come along and adopt them and love them and care for them. Before it's pointed out to me that adopters aren't interested in older kids, that they just want babies, than it's the biological parents that should shoulder the blame for not surrendering these abandoned, sometimes abused, older children when they were babies!
Adoption isn't always "rainbows and unicorns" but it isn't always coercion and human trafficking either.
What people seem to forget is that there are kids born to parents who DON'T REALLY WANT THEM. With any luck they are then raised by good people who do.
This online adoption community is made up of adoptees and biological mothers who refuse to admit this.
Can we please remember that there is still a child sitting in Russia, children sitting all over the world, without parents. Babies being conceived everyday to people who don't want them! They are just as entitled to be raised by a family who loves them as anyone else.
If later they then have some issues with the fact that their biological parents wouldn't/couldn't keep them well at least there's a chance that they have those issues coupled with the knowledge that someone loves them and cares about them, even if it's the evil adopters.
I for one am thankful that I'm not sitting here wondering what it would have been like to have been adopted by someone who loved me and cared for me.
Tuesday
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"Had you not met the child you are raising, would you miss her?" -This has got to be one of the most ridiculous questions I've ever seen.
ReplyDeleteYeah, isn't it like asking if you would miss a child who hadn't been born?
"Would she seek you out or cry for you had she not been adopted by you or not been adopted at all?" - Oh wait, this is the most ridiculous question.
Ditto, yeah. The fact is that when two people are placed together by circumstance, a new reality does take hold. Reality is created, not mandated. Love, connectedness, a kind of kinship do occur depending on the level of commitment and how the relationship is valued.
Why would we deprive adopted children whose natural parents are unavailable to them the love of adoptive parents just so we could keep saying that they have better parents--real parents--someplace else who are, oops, not available to them? (this poster's theme) How does this benefit the child?
I've found that when it comes to adoption, people have a tendency to see through their rose-colored or tarnished glasses. Very few are willing to look through the others glasses for even a moment.
ReplyDeleteI just don't get why people think that one child deserves a family more than another or that they are the best judge of where/how someone else's family should adopt from.
EVERY child in need of a home deserves one, regardless of where they live. And each family is the best judge of how they should adopt.
Campbell, Actually, in many ways you are correct. However, You knew this was coming, there is a lot about adoption that you simply gloss over.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I believe in adoption - as a last resort. I believe that if you are going to adopt, adopt from your culture (note I did not say race - that is rediculous). Meaning if you are American, your option should be for American children. This helps create a sense of continuity for the child. Culture shock is difficult for the adults of our world, can you imagine being a child and having to learn an entire new way of living?
Second, as responsible PAP's make sure. Make sure that the child is truly available for adoption. Make sure you are not adopting to fix your own emotional issues with infertility (and before anyone says it - I am infertile, the only child I ever had I lost to adoption). Make sure there is no family connection that is even remotely plausible for the child. Psychology and Psychiatry as well as Neurology are looking at the fact of genetic memory - so removing a child from what is genetically their home, so to speak, is cruel and leaves them with confusion.
Third, yes, every single child deserves a home. That includes teenagers who are sexually permiscuous (sp?), babies with AIDs, toddlers who have severe disabilities, children with health, mind and spirit issues - EVERY child. Not just the healthy baby.
Fourth, as a First Mother, I have to remind all that not all of us see things one sided. And the truth is, we all have to see things child sided or we are all blind.
Just my thoughts.
"This online adoption community is made up of adoptees and biological mothers who refuse to admit this."
ReplyDeleteUgh you're telling me. No adoptee are better off having been adopted, all birthparents were coerced, and all adoptive parents are inconsiderate selfish infertile fuck ups.
ugh...... you're so right Campbell.
As an adoptee, I'm sort of surprised to hear/see you making a post like this... particularly your statement on adoptees being people who are born to people who don't want them. This is something that I've struggled to come to terms with, and it's sort of confronting to see it written out so blatantly.
ReplyDeleteI think you've overlooked the fact that despite the fact that adoption provides "loving" homes for adoptees, there are many other issues involved. It's nowhere near as simple as just putting children with people who want them.
"What people seem to forget is that there are kids born to parents who DON'T REALLY WANT THEM"
ReplyDeleteOh, I believe this. This is actually a really close family relative case ATM. However, for the child who is actually born TO the mother, it's not just a question of "Well, why isn't the child going to be adopted?"
Most children are going to wonder why their own blood-kin rejected them before they were even born, and continued to do so by either abuse/neglect *after* they were born.
Take Dave Pelzer's story for example. His mother abused him from age 5 to 12. I don't know if you've read his story, but she abused him to the point where he passed out on the floor. He "learned" to hate her.
I don't doubt for a moment that Dave should have removed LONG before he actually got sent to foster care. That's the legal, logical side.
At the same time, he kept asking internally: "Why? What did I ever do to make you hate me so much?"
The emotional side is different - mothers are not supposed to "unwant" their children. Most generally experience hormonal changes in pregnancy that nurtures the instinct to love and care for their children.
It doesn't always happen - I've seen evidence of it in my own family. But it's supposed to. It's just not that clear-cut as "Mother doesn't give a damn about her child."
"What people seem to forget is that there are kids born to parents who DON'T REALLY WANT THEM."
ReplyDeleteI also meant to add that I believe these mothers exist but that they are in the minority. They don't make up the majority of cases, and usually there is some sort of chemical "issue" which is preventing them from bonding with their child. So it's not really about the child, but about the mother's mental and/or physical state.
Osolomama: "Yeah, isn't it like asking if you would miss a child who hadn't been born? "
What about miscarriages, or the "forced" abortion? Do those count?
Lori: "And the truth is, we all have to see things child sided or we are all blind."
But we can't. That's where the line "She loved you so much she gave you up" is screwed. In fact, a lot of dialogue around that line is screwed - it *logically* just doesn't make sense to a child. Ever.
Amanda: "No adoptees are better off having been adopted, all birthparents were coerced, and all adoptive parents are inconsiderate selfish infertile fuck ups."
... LMAO. That made me laugh SO HARD.
I'll butt-insky here and say that my impression is that Campbell doesn't ignore those issues, doesn't see adoption as simple (what simpleton would) but the thread she was referring to was so annoying, you'd be reaching the complicated grey zone just by not uttering a few curse words.
ReplyDeleteWow. I feel like I'm spamming your blog with comments. XD
ReplyDelete"If later they then have some issues with the fact that their biological parents wouldn't/couldn't keep them well at least there's a chance that they have those issues coupled with the knowledge that someone loves them and cares about them, even if it's the evil adopters. "
As a fellow adoptee, with all due respect (I know you and I respectuflly don't agree on a lot of cases), this comes across as dismissive. It comes across like this:
"If a little adoptee just so *happens* to have issues later on in life, well, at least they had the decency of a family, so they should be grateful they even have that."
Didn't someone in the comments above just say something about how a family is what every child *deserves*? Your paragraph kind of dismisses that because it's sending vibes that an adoptee whose "beginning" started in an orphanage should feel grateful for the "privilege" of a family.
"I for one am thankful that I'm not sitting here wondering what it would have been like to have been adopted by someone who loved me and cared for me."
You're also not sitting here with the perception that your bio family has fully accepted you or will do so. That is colouring your perception - much like my bio family's "love" for me colours mine.
It is easier for you to broadcast the above because things didn't happen that way in your bio family - so you detach yourself from them since you have a better bond/attachment with your adoptive family anyway.
YoonSeon, I'm sorry. For an adoptee who's struggling to come to terms with the feeling of MAYBE being born to people who don't want them I can see how what I wrote is confronting. Seriously, I'm sorry and I see what you're saying.
ReplyDeletePlease hear me when I say that just because I said that it's a truth for some people that it doesn't necessarily make it your truth.
I do realize that there are many other issues involved which I have addressed in other posts on my blog and in comments I've made elsewhere. In fact, a few posts back I have a letter written to my government here in Canada regarding the issues that need redress in adoption processes.
This particular post was kind of in response to a rampant opinion that adoption is always unnecessary, that adoptive parents should not be considered parents by us, that we should be referring to them as godparents or I guess by their first names or some such.
My intent was to point out that children without biological parents have just as much right as anyone else to people they can consider family, people they can call parents. That they shouldn't have to be relegated to orphan status just because some people are of the opinion that there is no justification for adoption under any circumstance. That each and every adoption is a deception and an instance of human trafficking or a denial of biology/heritage.
I agree that it's absolutely not simple and regret any uncomfortable feeling my post may have caused you. I have great compassion for other adoptees who struggle with legitimate feelings of confusion or loss or any other personal anguish being adopted has caused them. It sucks that not everyone is conceived by people prepared to parent and sucks just as much that people are adopted by people who aren't prepared to parent.
Please accept my apology and thank you so much for commenting.
Mei Ling...there's no question you're spamming my blog with comments :P You know I'm kidding and always welcome them!
ReplyDeleteOk, I'm going to do my best to make steak out of spam here ;
"Most children are going to wonder why their own blood-kin rejected them before they were even born, and continued to do so by either abuse/neglect *after* they were born." - Of course they'll wonder and I think that all info regarding why should be available to all adopted persons at an age appropriate time.
"At the same time, he kept asking internally: "Why? What did I ever do to make you hate me so much?" - My heartfelt wish here(and I mean that so sincerely!) is that someone could convince him that it was self hatred and NOT hatred of him. That he did nothing hateful and that he wasn't hated.
"The emotional side is different - mothers are not supposed to "unwant" their children. Most generally experience hormonal changes in pregnancy that nurtures the instinct to love and care for their children." - Mei Ling, I don't mean this to sound condescending, please believe me, but this statement is fairy tale like. Forever and a day women have been saddled with children they do not want. Pregnancy does not conjure up some magical love potion, in fact, it's been known to invoke quite the opposite. Giving birth does not a "mother" make. Many mothers do not feel an immediate love for their newborn and the stereotype you describe can be the cause sometimes, I think, of a new mom being unwilling to admit she's exhausted, or just plain "not feeling it" because of the pressure to be this perfect maternal model. It's funny actually, the "rainbows and unicorn" label given to adoption can easily be applied to the act of giving birth and the euphoria and love that's expected to be automatic and "natural". Being a new mom is damn hard work and any chance I get I'll tell them to accept the feelings of exhaustion, that it's ok to feel like you want to chuck your baby out the window because they just won't stop crying and you haven't slept for days. It's when new moms have to pretend these feelings don't exist or that they feel pressure to hide them that they end up doing things I don't even want to go into here.
"What people seem to forget is that there are kids born to parents who DON'T REALLY WANT THEM."
ReplyDelete"I also meant to add that I believe these mothers exist but that they are in the minority. They don't make up the majority of cases, and usually there is some sort of chemical "issue" which is preventing them from bonding with their child. So it's not really about the child, but about the mother's mental and/or physical state." -No Mei Ling, it's not USUALLY a chemical "issue" preventing them from bonding with their child. It sometimes is, but it's also sometimes the fact they can't afford a(nother) child, that they feel too old to have another, that they have 4 already, that they are not an adult yet, that they don't really like kids, that they had plans for their education, that they don't even remember having sex and don't know who the dad is, that they don't believe in abortion, that they were raped, that they don't want to disrupt their career, that they have a drug addiction, that it's the third time they were pregnant this year, that the father is married to someone else. There is one thing you're right about though, it's not about the child, as a human being with a personality and possibilities. It's not about them personally because the mother/parent/father doesn't even know them.
"Osolomama: "Yeah, isn't it like asking if you would miss a child who hadn't been born? "
What about miscarriages, or the "forced" abortion? Do those count?" - Don't really understand where you're going here.
"Lori: "And the truth is, we all have to see things child sided or we are all blind."
But we can't. That's where the line "She loved you so much she gave you up" is screwed. In fact, a lot of dialogue around that line is screwed - it *logically* just doesn't make sense to a child. Ever." - It makes sense to me. Also, I think that was an amazing statement Lori made which I agree with wholeheartedly. I'm pretty sure she never imagined it would be combined with the "she loved you so much" bit though, and I doubt she'd like it.
"If later they then have some issues with the fact that their biological parents wouldn't/couldn't keep them well at least there's a chance that they have those issues coupled with the knowledge that someone loves them and cares about them, even if it's the evil adopters. "
As a fellow adoptee, with all due respect (I know you and I respectuflly don't agree on a lot of cases), this comes across as dismissive. It comes across like this:
"If a little adoptee just so *happens* to have issues later on in life, well, at least they had the decency of a family, so they should be grateful they even have that."
This part kind pisses me off actually Mei Ling. You completely distorted what I said but if that's what it comes across to you as, I believe you. I personally am glad to have sorted it all out with a family as opposed to alone. I think that would have been harder.
"Amanda: "No adoptees are better off having been adopted, all birthparents were coerced, and all adoptive parents are inconsiderate selfish infertile fuck ups."
... LMAO. That made me laugh SO HARD."
-I loved this statement also and regret not having thought to just say that in the original post!
Oh yeah...this part...
ReplyDeleteI for one am thankful that I'm not sitting here wondering what it would have been like to have been adopted by someone who loved me and cared for me.
"You're also not sitting here with the perception that your bio family has fully accepted you or will do so. That is colouring your perception - much like my bio family's "love" for me colours mine." - Not sure if this is relevant but I'd like to make it known that I don't give a shit if my bio "family" accepts me or not. I don't even know them.
It is easier for you to broadcast the above because things didn't happen that way in your bio family - so you detach yourself from them since you have a better bond/attachment with your adoptive family anyway.
It's easier for me because why?
The point I was trying to make was that I am fortunate to have had a family as opposed to those who grow up in foster care or an institution. That I'm glad I don't wonder what it might have been like for me to have been adopted.
Mei Ling we've discussed before the fact that your and my situation are really incomparable but in this case I wonder. You were not going to be kept by your bio family, correct? It was beyond their control. If that's so, and you'd not been adopted, I imagine you'd wonder what it would have been like to have been.
I'm saying I'm glad I don't have to wonder.
Campbell: It's OK. You don't need to apologise for writing your own thoughts and feelings in your own blog. I guess I was just surprised to see what you wrote, being an adoptee, and all.
ReplyDeleteWell thanks for that ìœ¤ì„ and thanks for coming back. I am still though sincere in my apology.
ReplyDelete"Osolomama: "Yeah, isn't it like asking if you would miss a child who hadn't been born? "
ReplyDeleteWhat about miscarriages, or the "forced" abortion? Do those count?" - Don't really understand where you're going here.
I was referring to someone you could not miss--not conceived.
I wrote the most ridiculous words you ever saw. That was me. I came over to read your blog. I forget what the point of writing those words was. I know the first time those words were said to me it was an adoptee explaining how the people who adopted her were ready to love any baby, she was only special to the people that adopted her because they raised her, she said she was special to her real family dispite the fact that they had not raised her. They had no idea where she was or what her name had been changed to but they still looked for her. She said the people that raised her would not be looking for her had they not raised her. I thought what she said was really profound and it helped me understand her situation better. Thats all. I don't think its better for children to be abused or sit in orphanages than to be raised in loving homes by people who really want to take care of them. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
ReplyDeleteI reunite people with family I do it for free I'm only exposed to people who miss the biological connection. I'm reading blogs like this and Julie Shapiro's to get a broader understanding of how people end up not knowing who their relatives are. The number of people that need help can be overwhelming and I never turn anyone down. I'm thinking it would be a good idea to help change the laws that prevent people from knowing who/where their families are. Thats all. I'm not so much anti adoption as I am pro guardianship because there is no pretending to be related involved.
ReplyDeleteSomeone above said my comment about not missing a child that you had not adopted was like not missing a child that had never been born.
ReplyDeleteBut the adopted child was born. Not adopting a child is not the same as the child not being born. They existed before they were adopted. There is a family out there in the world that would look for her no matter who adopted her because they are her relatives - she belongs to that family, that made her feel unique and special like who she really was could not be erased by adoption into another family. Her point was that the people that raised her that love her so much, could just as easily never have adopted her and they would not miss her yet she'd still exist on earth they just would not care about her, and her real family would still be looking. That is why I thought that analogy was so profound when it was told to me. Maybe I'm not telling that analogy right, if I said it better it would not seem ridiculous at all. I'll have to work on that, its not intended to offend or hurt anyone that is the last thing I want to do. I'm not angry at anyone and did not intend to bother so many people by what I said.
Hi Marilynn
ReplyDeleteGood for you to help people. It's a great thing to do and makes me realize where your passion about all of this comes from. It's great you're trying to get a broader understanding of adoption.
I'd like to add to that understanding by telling you that adoption is unique and serious to each and every person involved. That there are people who search even if they don't miss having or feel a biological connection and there are other people who feel just exactly how the adoptee you refer to feels.
I've yet to meet an adopted person who wants to be referred to by their parents as their "adopted child" even if they themselves are more than comfortable with saying they are adopted.
There was nothing about my particular adoption situation that was a lie. I've always known, been very comfortable in saying I'm adopted and talking about it, and have searched.
My adoptive parents are the only ones I think of as "mom and dad" because they are the only parents I've ever known. I can't even imagine calling them by their first names or whatever else one calls people in a "guardian" type circumstance.
Thanks for coming by and commenting. We're all learning and hopefully all the awareness people are beginning to gain will help in what I care most about and that's kids. Adopted or not.
The act of "missing" can only be felt one way, and that is by the person who misses. Nobody can miss anything he or she never met. It doesn't matter how the person came into the relationship--it's the fact of the relationship that counts. I would not miss a child I never adopted and no child who had never been adopted by me would miss me. Ditto a born one.
ReplyDeleteThat is not the same thing as talking about the fact that an adopted child has a life trajectory that involves herself and her original family and only involves an adoptive parent by chance. That is correct--but the relationship is not invalidated by the fact that these are chance encounters. What is is, and what is not is not.
Hello Campbell
ReplyDeleteIm making an attempt to learn as much as I can so that what ever opinion I end up with is a well informed one.
I am just starting to understand that you were adopted and also chose to adopt, which is cool, I've never talked to an adoptee who also adopted.
I don't know what words to use writing to you that will be respectful of your opinions, I'd like to offer to help you look or find out if anyone is looking for you I don't want to call them your family since I think I'm understanding you to say that you would not think of those people as family. But if you are curious I would like to help you or maybe I could just give you my passwords to the detective websites and if you ever felt like looking you could.
Biological Mother and Birth Mother are terms that bug me because I'm inclined to just say plane old mother or parent. Since I understand that may not be respectful to people raising adopted children I'm going to use the word proginators instead of birth-parents.
A friend from HighSchool found out I find people. I remember she was raised by her grandmother, her mom was a heroine addict sentenced to a 40 year prison term for a crime that must have been a doozey. Aparently when my friend was in her 20's she found out that she had 2 brothers one was being raised by his father and the other had been given up for adoption. She found the one brother in the phone book and they've see eachother at least once a week for the last 15 years. She and her brother spent several thousand dollars over 15 years searching and filing paperwork with the state trying to find the baby brother that was given up for adoption. It took me about a month to locate him for her. They all go camping together now, have holidays at eachothers houses. He knew he was adopted and had never been intrigued enough to actually search, but when he found out that he not only had a sister and brother but they put so much effort into finding him - it made him feel really good. He had only ever wondered about his female proginator. He was disappointed to learn about her, but at least he has a brother and sister who share his disappointment. He's getting to know his male proginator which he'd never even thought about before. He is now closer to the siblings he is related to than those he grew up with. The mother and father he grew up with are still the only people he calls mom and dad.
Not sure if maybe you'd want to meet your siblings or grandparents or cousins aunts and uncles. I will tell you this for sure the family you grew up in may be the only family you've ever known, but its not the only family thats ever known you and for sure there is someone out there from that other family that thinks about you on a regular basis. It may not be the female proginator, may not be the male proginator but someone remembers you and does not know how to find you to tell you so.
I just like handing people that lotto check. It does not always turn out perfect but its better than being told you don't have a right to know.
O Solo Mama
ReplyDeleteBear with me, I'm sincere in my question asking and I am not trying to be a smart ass...When you say the act of missing can only be felt one way and that's by the person who misses. Do you mean that two people can't jointly miss one another unless both people have conscious memories of shared experiences together? I think that might be what you are getting at, that it’s not possible for an adopted person to miss its progenitors because the child has no relationship with them in order to miss them. You’re saying you cannot miss a person if all you have with that person is relatedness?
I will say this in favor of what you said I do not think that pregnancy constitutes a relationship or birth memories or anything like that. The basis of what I am talking about it relatedness. Ok I'm thinking about what you are saying...I feel very strongly that no child will ever grow up and seek out an unrelated surrogate that gave birth to them but would seek out an anonymous progenitor who did not give birth to them. The difference being relatedness rather than relationship.
So ok, maybe "miss" is the wrong word. How about urge desire obsession curiosity. Is yearning different than missing? I know it hurts people like a broken heart from a crush. But if your point is missing can only happen when there are shared memories - ok, I'll acquiesce.
And if it sounded like I was saying that the relationship to the adopted child is invalidated because of the fact that its a chance encounter I'm sorry because I don't think that the relationship is invalid at all. The point as it was made to me by an adoptee was that although she feels loved by the people who adopted her, they only love her because she happens to be the child placed in their home. Had she not been placed in their home they would have loved another child and she would not matter to them but she will always matter to the family she was born into they will always remember her no mater who raises her. Its not interchangeable its a club you will always be a part of. I was not suggesting that love in a chance encounter is not valid. From the perspective of a person who already exists its kind of like there is nothing special or unique about them that connects them to the people that adopted them, they just happened to be the kid that showed up.
Marilynn...not sure where you started to understand that I chose to adopt, but, you're incorrect. I have one biological child, that's it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not the right person to guide you in what to call women who've lost/placed/given up children but for me the term that works, and means the most, is biological. When speaking to biological mothers on their blogs I try and use what term I think they prefer, but it's still hit and miss.
Very interesting search and reunion story. Glad it turned out so well for all, sadly it's not always like that so it's great to read about a successful one.
As far as your offer to help me out searching, much appreciated but I've already located my biological mother. We've not met but have corresponded once.
"From the perspective of a person who already exists its kind of like there is nothing special or unique about them that connects them to the people that adopted them, they just happened to be the kid that showed up."
ReplyDeleteMarilynn, the above is definitely accurate for some adopted people. You've got it pegged.
Please know though that it's NOT this way for all adopted people.
I think that there is something special and unique about WHAT connects me to the people that adopted me, all the more so as I learn about bad adoptive situations. I'm a very family oriented person and couldn't feel more related to my family, which includes extended family. It's not about blood for everyone.
I have to be honest, it's odd having a non adopted person declaring what adopted persons do and do not think and feel.