Saturday

Pick on someone your own size

I admit it, at the moment I'm addicted to reading blogs and forums. It's not helping me focus on my original plan for this blog but that's ok, I know I'll get there eventually.

So in my internet travels I've come across some very articulate and thoughtful young people who are struggling with their teen years. This in itself isn't notable, everyone has been there. It's the additional burden of adoption these particular young people carry that sets them apart, that makes their teen years even more challenging. If adoption was part of any of my peer's lives when I was a kid, I wasn't aware of it. Several family members, sibling and cousins, were adopted and I knew of one aunt that had given up a baby but none of my school friends were affected by adoption, that I knew of anyway. The fact that it was all around me in my family likely helped normalize it for me and as I've stated before I don't know about anyone of importance ever making any of us adoptees feel like we didn't belong, that we weren't family, that we weren't "real". I say all of this because not only was I not exposed to any significant real life examples of adoption gone wrong, I was also not exposed to the internet.

I shudder to think how this adoption blog and forum society would have messed with the "teen me". It's messes with me now! I read and react, sometimes comment, most times refrain. Some people take care reacting to what I say, many don't. I watch others post and comment and then deal with the backlash if what they've said isn't well received. I see bullying, tunnel vision, words that are twisted, a poorly worded sentence in a multi paragraph post attacked, and I see intimidation, all of which are part and parcel of this way of communicating and if you put yourself out there it's a risk you run. I know this, and I can take it. My issue is, what is it doing to young people who are trying to find their way? Trying to make it through one of the hardest parts of life?

When I'm compelled to speak online to a young person that I don't know because of something they've said, I take it very seriously. Most times I refrain but when I don't, I try and react in a way I'd want a stranger talking to my child about something as serious as adoption to react. Just writing that makes me feel a little sick to my stomach because I wouldn't want some stranger talking to my child about something as serious as adoption!! These kids are in situations you and I truly know nothing about because if there's one thing that's not complex about adoption is that the fact that it is complex. That every single story is unique, just as every single person is unique.

Am I the only one who thinks that telling a teen that you don't even know what to do is wrong? That conversing with them in the same way you converse with your online buddies is inappropriate? That attacking them and imposing your own adult views on them is disgusting? That disregarding and attacking each other isn't ok and is a piss poor example to be setting? These young people are so impressionable, so vulnerable and so precious and we have a responsibility to conduct ourselves in a way we'd want people to conduct themselves around our own children. Conduct ourselves the way we would if we were having a discussion while they were in the same room as us.

We don't know what their biological families are like or what their story is. We don't know if their parents are really as horrible or fantastic as they're being portrayed. We don't know if they have clinical mental or physical health issues. We don't know enough to tell them their adoptive parents suck, or to tell them it's their right to call up their biological people and say hi out of the blue, to tell them they should get their baby back, that they're evil for not keeping it. That if we had it all to do over we'd NEVER have given our baby away. What a load of crap that one is! So easy to say 10, 20, 30 years later when your life is all well and good and you've forgotten how it feels to be a kid.

The young people are here, no changing that. They're blogging, commenting, reading and reacting. But they're also developing, growing and learning. Their issues, opinions and thoughts are real and important. They deserve just as much, if not more, validation and support as the rest of the people involved in this adoption blog world but they also deserve extra consideration and time taken on how we respond to them and to each other. They deserve to see a society of adults who are capable of having healthy discussion, open minds, and compassion for each other's unique stories and views. That can work together to create positive change. That can learn from each other and show respect when disagreeing.

One last thing that won't be popular but don't worry, I can take it. I would like young adopted people to know that not every personality flaw, weakness, or problem that you have is necessarily because of adoption. That people who aren't adopted have trust issues, say sorry too much, have eating disorders, have crappy parents, have self esteem issues, know nothing about their heritage, suffer from depression, repeatedly get into relationships with the wrong people, and many other traits associated with being adopted. I'm not saying that these traits are never a result of being adopted, but they're obviously caused by other reasons too since they're not unique to us adoptees. And what's not unique to non adopted persons is the ability to work it out. To be healthy and rise above adversity. To refuse to let others victimize us and make their problems ours. We have the ability to break a bad cycle. It's not easy, but believe me, it's possible.

42 comments:

  1. Thank You so much for your words on first mother forum, really. They mean so much to me right now xox
    I am enjoying your writing, and i too have been "distracted" as of late...spinning in blog land...it's good though. I am learning a lot, I have so much to learn!
    Much Love & Respect!
    Kris

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  2. ok. so i finally read this O so needed post.
    nice. good stuff. congrats. happy chinese new year!
    no seriously campbell...i needed to read this today.
    I said and was thinking along these exact lines today and posted it over at the forum.
    I have abandonment issues. I was not adopted.
    I have LOTS of "issues" that can echo and mirror adoptee and birthmom issues....b/c....they are issues people have regardless of "what" or "who" you are!!
    Yes Yes YES!!!
    Amen!
    I too, think so much about who is reading some of this stuff. It scares me.
    We have a lot of advocating to do - we have a lot of rational, respectful, kind, empathetic Loving to do. I know I do.
    Kelsey is such a refreshing light out of the darkness and i was dumbfounded by how the fact that she said "she was not bitter about her decision" turned into a semantic brawl that somehow pinned her as implying that everyone else was bitter and that she was better than most b/c of it.
    I knew that was not what she said nor her intent, and was so innocent of what that one word would transpire into....wow.
    we have to be so careful, so guarded sometimes...its a darn shame.
    but i am grateful for it all b/c i have really thought a lot about numerous things this week regarding adoption, regarding myself .
    I am so thankful that you are here, that you are writing - making sense and reminding me.
    just a side note~~~
    when i was growing up, 2 of my closest friends were adopted. different families...and i grew up in a SMALL town on the Jersey Shore. Everyone knew they were adopted, they knew, they had siblings, awesome and amazing A Parents...I often wished I was adopted!!!! I was so envious of their lives. They had it so good compared to me. truly.
    To this very day, they are happy, pleasant, successful people. I never knew of a negative side of adoption until i was in my teens and i had a step-aunt who was forced, sent away, etc...
    She was Bi=Polar, and had serious emotional issues that stemmed from her experience.
    But she was the only one.
    Until Now.
    I have been in shock since i came to the adoption-blogging world...still reeling from everything that has come to me.
    I have to remind myself that i have a life outside of Wordpress lately...oh that darn pendulum LOL
    LOve,
    Mama K.

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  3. Me too. I've been shocked by a side of adoption that I didn't know existed and have learned.

    One thing I learned is that saying "you wish(ed) you were adopted is kind of a huge insult to some adoptees. I'm not one of them, it's an ongoing joke in my family how lucky my sibling and I are to be adopted and not doomed to inherit the crazy genes of our family. I remember my sweet, good dad saying more than once "thank god you were adopted!" when certain family members were being difficult and impossible. I know of one cousin who insists he's sure he must be adopted (he so isn't) and other people in real life who have said it was something they wished because they don't have the family they wished they did. I get it, and understand the context in which it's being said.

    I can, however, also see how a person who is traumatized by adoption and sees nothing positive in it would react negatively to someone wishing they were adopted.

    My intent in saying this is to forewarn you against offending someone unknowingly but please also know I completely understand why you'd feel that way.

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  4. I see a LOT of advice being given out to teenagers, particularly ones who are considering adoption. Sometimes adoption IS the right thing, and anyone who says it isn't is lying or is too wrapped up in their own shit to see to be even slightly objective. I have a sister, who is a good 7 years older than I, who was placed at birth. She and I share a birthmother, but not a birthfather. We have become great friends,and I care for her deeply. One of the things we have bonded over, and one thing that we can agree on , is that adoption WAS the right choice for us. We have 7 other siblings who were not so lucky, who were bounced from foster home to foster home, who were emotionally damaged by our birthmother. The sadness of their lives haunts us everyday. A lot of people in the adoption blog world, particularly birthparents, love to preach to me (I am only in my mid twenties). They love to tell me that my loyalty to my adoptive parents is just another sip of the koolaid. They love to tell me that because I do not consider my birthmother or my birthfather a "mom" and "dad" (whom I've met both of them and have a relationship with them... to various degrees). They tell me I'm buying into the "safe at home" theory, they say I'm in denial, that I'm cold, that I'm not old enough to comprehend my loss, that my birthmother WOULD have been the best mother for me, that I am evil for not wanting contact anymore, that I should be grateful.

    But let me tell you..as soon as they hear my story , they shut up. As soon as they hear about my little siblings, my paternal birthfamilies rejection of me during our reunion, the problems of jealousy with my full birth sister, and the addictions and demons that have such a strong hold on my birthmother...they change their tune. It seems only by DRASTICALLY proving them wrong do I gain any respect.

    I'm a young person, and it sickens me to see some people (from all sides of the triad) giving off their biased opinions, and worst, giving advice to unsuspecting people when they have no business doing so. We aren't here to warn other people about the hardships of adoption. Telling prospective adoptive parents that the answer to their infertility is NOT adoption is wrong. Telling birthparents never to relinquish because if they had a chance they wouldn't do it again is wrong, and telling adoptees to suck it up or to have relationships with birthfamily or adoptive family members when they would be damaging is wrong. Adoption is not always the best solution. I'd even go as far as to say it is USUALLY not the best solution. We've all been brainwashed into thinking that adoption is a noble act that will elicit love and respect from both the adoptive parents and the adoptee. We all know that this is not necessarily true, but I for one would NEVER presume to say that adoption is not right for ANYONE, as so many people in adoption blogland seem to say.

    Adoption was right for me. It was the only option ( though it shouldn't have been, given my birthfather came from a wealthy family who was more than able to care for me had they not wanted to get rid of the evidence of their sons mistakes as quickly as possible). But adoption HAS worked for me, and I get so angry when I see people giving out advice that clearly they are not qualified to give. Having experience with adoption because you are a member of the triad does NOT make one an expert, and it certainly does not enable one to give out the unbiased advice that so many people considering adoptin need.

    Thanks for a GREAT post Campbell!!!!

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  5. I hate the koolaid, fog and rainbow implications too Amanda. Frankly it's insulting, and is so at any age. As far as the implication that any loyalty I have to my family is "forced" because I've been brainwashed to be grateful (or whatever), that's another hard one to swallow. My family is by no means perfect but the love we have for each other is real, warts and all. I have never, ever, without a doubt, for one millisecond felt obligated to my family out of gratitude for being adopted.

    I know this is not the reality for some, and I hate that that's so, but it is reality for me and something for which I am thankful.

    Thank you Amanda, for a great comment!

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  6. Wow, thanks for this post Campbell! As an AP, I usually refrain from getting into any heated debates (I did one time and got called a baby snatcher...nice, huh?). I read blogs and forums to learn from adoptees (and first moms and to a lesser extent other APs). I read and read b/c I want to learn about adoptees' experiences in order to better understand my daughter and how she may feel about her own adoption and adoption in general when she is older.

    I too repeatedly see all kinds of advice being given out to very young teenagers regarding their own adoption or whether or not to place their baby. I always cringe when I read some of it b/c I agree that posters and bloggers do not have the right to judge or give life-altering advice to a 13 or 14 year old(or 15, 16, or 17 year old for that matter) over the internet. I sure as hell wouldn't want a stranger giving advice to my 12 year old son over the internet about ANYTHING, much less something as serious as adoption. Who do these people think they are? That's my question in a lot of cases. It scares me to think what strangers are going to be saying to my daughter in 10 years online about her adoption, not because I am hiding something, but because I don't want some stranger telling her how she "should" feel and telling her she is brainwashed if she happens to actually be happy (and I do mean happy, not "grateful". My bio kids sure aren't grateful, I don't expect her to be!!(:).

    In many cases, it seems people are trying to push their own agenda and not keeping in mind that these are CHILDREN they are corresponding with, the very ones they claim to care so much about.

    Great post Campbell!!

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  7. Hey Kris. Glad you stopped by.

    I think it's great you read adoption blogs and forums to learn. I know it's been very informative for me. I wonder if it's always a good influence on an adoptive parent though, if it ever gives them a feeling of uneasiness around their child that they may not have otherwise had.

    I'm a firm believer in being very open with kids about the internet. Talking about what they may come across before they actually come across it, in a preventative manner, and for sure creating an environment of trust so that they can tell us if the stumble upon some type of craziness. Our computer was always out in the open until my son was of an age that I felt he could keep himself safe. Although I never did snoop through his stuff we both know I could have as he was quite old before his passwords were secret from me. Actually, I think I may even know now what his password is now.

    "My bio kids sure aren't grateful, I don't expect her to be!!(:)."

    I totally love this line lol. Take heart, they'll all likely be grateful for you someday, likely are already they just don't think to tell ya!

    For the record, I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with being grateful for a great parent(s) and family whether one is adopted or not. I'm not talking "you should be grateful we took you cause nobody else would have" but rather being happy about having a really good mom or dad or both. It's not always easy being a good mom or dad, putting your kids first, but the pay off is incomparable, for us and our kids.

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  8. It's interesting you should say that about the blogs, forums, etc giving APs and uneasiness around their child they might not have otherwise had. That is true to a certain extent (at least for me). I have found myself looking at her and wondering if adopting her was a huge mistake (for her well-being, not for me) and if she will hate adoption vehemently someday. I didn't consider that before. I mean, I always knew that she has suffered a loss and she will always be affected by it. But I never considered the fact that she may have very strong anti-adoption feelings someday. In the long run, I think it is good that I am more aware of it and I am more aware of the often unethical adoption industry in general. Sometimes I ask myself if I would have adopted if I had read some of these blogs/forums before adopting. (And I have been harshly criticized - fairly - for not reading anti-adoption blogs, etc before adopting). Honestly, I don't know. There is a lot of negativity, I don't know how I would have reacted as a PAP, rather than an AP. I should add that have bio kids so adopting was not our only way to have a family. It may have been easier for me to walk away from the idea of adoption for that reason. I have definitely changed my mind about a lot of adoption-related topics. I never want my daughter to feel the hurt and pain that I read about on some blogs/forums and I feel awful knowing I participated in something (her adoption) that may make her feel that way. It makes me feel like I need to take a shower. But I keep reading, because for better or worse, she is adopted now and that was my choice so I need to hear the good, the bad and the ugly, all of it!

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  9. Wow, I gotta say Campbell that I really disagree with your point of view here. I remember what it was like to be a teenager and the main thing I always wished for was to be treated like a young adult and not like a child. You say that the teens on forums and in blog land are impressionable and that people should watch what they say - from my experience, those that blog and comment on the forum I frequent are extremely intelligent, articulate and more importantly, they know their own minds. I also remember that my teen self would not change my mind based on something an adult said, not in a million years - teenagers know everything. They can smell bullsh*t a mile away, they know when someone is patronising them, and they don't like it. Frankly, I wish that I had emerged from the adoption fog in my teens, that I had realised then how much adoption had affected me - maybe I wouldn't have spent the better part of my adult life consolidating who I am as a person.
    As for your comment about adoption related issues, the difference between adoptees and other people who experience things like low self esteem, eating disorders, substance abuse, crappy parents and so on, is the simple fact that adoptees suffer from so many of them all at once. Crappy biological parents are one thing but at least their children share their genetic potential with them. Some people don't know their heritage but it is not illegal for them to go and research their family tree like it is for adoptees with sealed birth certificates. I think you do adoptees a disservice by making out that those who embrace and deal with our issues are in some way wallowing, whining, that it is a simple matter of getting over it - it reminds me of my amother telling me to "just be happy". We are victims in the adoption triad, we are the only ones who had no choice. The problems that arise are our own and the healthy ones among us deal with them by seeking therapy, by seeking fellow adoptees on this wonderful tool, the internet - without the support I have found online, I do not know where I would be today. And I reiterate that I wish that I had found a network of adoptees when I was a teen to help me see through the shroud of happy dappy adoption rainbow fog.

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  10. Erimentha normally I take the time to explain my post to a commenter if it seems what I've said has been misunderstood but I'd be wasting my time here. Your comment doesn't subjectively address my post and comes across to me as just more rhetoric, some of which actually supports my reflection on tunnel vision and word twisting.

    Lastly, I'm not a victim.

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  11. Kris, please know that it's not a given that your daughter will "feel the hurt and pain that I read about on some blogs/forums" even though it's obvious the potential exists.

    I can honestly say I don't feel like I've suffered any loss due to being adopted. Ironically, any sense of loss that I have to deal with is a result of the deaths of my brother and dad within the last 5 years, neither of whom were biologically related to me.
    I say this not for sympathy but to demonstrate how vastly different the adoption experience can be from one person to the next.

    I agree that it's good that we are all more more aware of the often unethical adoption industry in general and hopefully this awareness can help to change how things are done.

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  12. Hello Campbell,
    This is Krista from the forum you are speaking of. I don't generally comment on the public side for reasons such as this. I don't want my private pain being used on someone's blog, especially in a way that paints you as this "good adoptee" and the others going through our process as a "bad adoptee". I hear the condescension in your writing both here on your blog and on our sanctuary of a forum. We are growing, processing, and grieving, no matter our age. It is not for you to come in and teach us lessons. I will not comment again here on your blog and understand this is your personal space. Basically, in case you completely miss the gist of this post, is that I don't want my therapy aired out to the public the same as someone in AA has a private group for processing. I am not going to take your pain and post it all over a public board to rant on it. Thank you for listening.

    Krista (Shannon Elizabeth original name)

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  13. Krista, I'm sorry but I'm not even sure who you are. I certainly didn't have any specific person or forum or blog in mind when I wrote the post. I certainly didn't reference anyone's private pain. It's funny that you talk about "good adoptees" and "bad adoptees" because if you're from and referring to the forum I think you may be I very much feel like the bad adoptee there, if there is such a thing. Also, take comfort in the fact that you'll not be subjected to my condescending writing style again in the sanctity of your forum. I'm not welcome and I'm not stupid. I know where my kind isn't wanted.

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  14. Campbell, are you an adoptive parent, too? It seems like you may be a double dipper. I find your attitude condescending and patronizing.

    Adopted teenagers NEED to hear that what they are feeling aboout their adoptions is normal. Not all teenagers, or adults for that matter, are happy living in denial.

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  15. Nope, not an adoptive parent.

    I agree, teenagers NEED to hear what they're feeling about adoption is normal.

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  16. I am Newhall on one of the forums you visit, and we've had conversations before about listening to teens. Teenagers (as well as children and adults) need to have people listen to them openly and not judge what they say, or have what they say called "disturbed," even if it surprising or triggering to the adult listening to it.

    I wish that I'd had adopted adults around me as a teen to validate my feelings and let me know that I wasn't alone. Being told to repress one's innermost doubts and "be grateful" sucks. It works if you are happy and grateful, but not so much if you aren't.

    I am so glad that you felt happy and sheltered and loved and cared for in your childhood. But this is not the case for everyone. You say you "shudder to think" what "negative" thoughts about adoption would have done to the teen you. Well, some of us had "negative" feelings despite coming from pretty sheltered, loving, and cushy backgrounds (in other words a "positive" adoption). Certain thoughts were always there inside me: wondering who I was born to be, rather than who I was adopted to be. Whom I resembled. Whose talents I inherited. And so on. As a teen, I suffered from having to repress these thoughts. My aparents refused to think it had to do with my adoption; my therapists, too. Back in the 70's and 80's, it was sacrilege to speak a negative thought about adoption. There was no Internet, or I would have jumped at the chance to find people like myself.

    In sum, I think it's up to the teen to decide for herself or himself what kind of support she or he needs. I, for one, am happy to offer support on my forum to all kinds of adopted teens, without judging them or their feelings, or assuming that they are not interacting with their aparents in a calm, rational way. Offering guidance is fine, but most often they just want to be seen and heard.

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  17. And "normal" does not always mean happy. Adoption is not normal. Adopted teens have a higher rate of suicide, drug use, pregnancy, etc. I applaud the adults who let teen adoptees know that their feelings of despair are completely natural for being in an unnatural situation. Teens who know that adoption is a huge issue in their life, and a negative one at that, are ahead of the game as far as their mental health status goes. Their feelings need to be validated by their own kind- not adoptive parents, and not adoptees who refuse to see the damage adoption causes. They can see right through the bull sheet.

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  18. When I was a teenager (back in the 80's) I was very much anti-adoption, as I am today. I so wish there had been a place for me as a teen to discuss and validate my feelings with like minded people.

    EP

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  20. Hey Newhall.

    Ok, your first paragraph, misrepresentation and you know it.

    I too wish you'd had someone around when you were a teen to let you know you weren't alone.

    Not sure I've ever said that I "felt happy and sheltered and loved and cared for in my childhood". At times it felt very much the opposite with the way my mom was. So much so that I ran away at 15. It was a very high pressure situation that I had to escape or go crazy. This all had nothing to do with the fact that I was adopted but to do with the fact my mom sucked at being a mom to a teenager like me. Given all that, I do shudder to think how this adoption blog and forum society would have messed with the "teen me". As I said in my post, it's messes with me now!

    See now, this is what I'm talking about. You took what I said and changed it to suit your purpose, and used quotations to boot. What you just wrote, quoting me was, You say you "shudder to think" what "negative" thoughts about adoption would have done to the teen you. Well, some of us had "negative" feelings despite coming from pretty sheltered, loving, and cushy backgrounds (in other words a "positive" adoption).

    What I really wrote was,
    I shudder to think how this adoption blog and forum society would have messed with the "teen me". It's messes with me now! I read and react, sometimes comment, most times refrain. Some people take care reacting to what I say, many don't. I watch others post and comment and then deal with the backlash if what they've said isn't well received. I see bullying, tunnel vision, words that are twisted, a poorly worded sentence in a multi paragraph post attacked, and I see intimidation, all of which are part and parcel of this way of communicating and if you put yourself out there it's a risk you run. I know this, and I can take it. My issue is, what is it doing to young people who are trying to find their way? Trying to make it through one of the hardest parts of life?

    As an adoptive adult, why are on earth would you have a problem with me saying that?

    "Certain thoughts were always there inside me: wondering who I was born to be, rather than who I was adopted to be. Whom I resembled. Whose talents I inherited. And so on."

    Wow!!!! Me too Newhall. How weird is that? Oh wait, maybe it's because we're both adopted. Did you ever wonder if your mom may be famous? I did, because her name is the name of a famous actress that I like. I wondered also once if my math teacher might be my mom since she was short, had red hair, and nobody liked her but me. Turned out she wasn't. Damn, eh? That would have saved me so much trouble searching.

    I'm really sorry your parents refused to think your troubles had anything to do with your adoption. Your therapists too.

    The therapists I got dragged to were usually useless because they were friends or acquaintances of my moms so I always felt they were biased. I eventually got myself to my own therapist and it was completely empowering. The guy basically said to me, "has it ever occurred to you, Campbell, your mom may be the crazy one here?" I never looked back.

    You say back in the 70's and 80's, it was sacrilege to speak a negative thought about adoption. That was not my experience.

    I too think it's great for people of all ages to talk about things on the internet. It's amazing to be able to connect with people from all over the world. It's the lack of care and responsibility I'm talking about in my post.

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  21. Jenna...It seems like you're referencing a topic posted on a particular forum about abortion vs. adoption, not me. You're not the only one who thought it "seemed" I took it to mean someone was suicidal. I didn't say anything remotely like that, it was others who conjured that all up. I won't go back over all that was said but you might want to so you can get your story straight. My blog post covered far more more than adoptees talking to other adoptees on a single forum. I'm removing your post as it's a little too specific to a particular situation for my liking.

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  22. Anonymous...you're all over the place.

    "Their feelings need to be validated by their own kind- not adoptive parents, and not adoptees who refuse to see the damage adoption causes."

    I thought that this was one of the biggest issues? Adoptive parents not validating their kids feelings. Also, if your saying that I'm an adoptee that refuses to see the damage adoption causes, you're out of line.... but thanks for giving me the opportunity to give a shout out to adoptees who refuse to see that adoption doesn't always cause damage to the adoptee.

    "Adopted teens have a higher rate of suicide, drug use, pregnancy, etc"

    Is that a fact? Higher than whom?


    "I applaud the adults who let teen adoptees know that their feelings of despair are completely natural for being in an unnatural situation"

    I applaud this too.

    "Teens who know that adoption is a huge issue in their life, and a negative one at that, are ahead of the game as far as their mental health status goes."

    If a teen is being affected negatively by adoption and knows that it's the cause then I agree, they are way ahead of the game as far as their mental health status goes.

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  23. Campbell, we are obviously remembering the conversation that we had elsewhere differently. You know what you said to a particular teenager. I can say no more about that.

    What I find perplexing is that you are so bothered by people responding to quotations from your own opinions and arguments. That's how discourse works. When you form an argument, you need evidence. Someone says something, and then another person agrees or disagrees. The use of quotations helps the person being addressed understand which part of a statement is being questioned and addressed. Sometimes people twist and misquote, certainly, and that is not desirable. But I see quotations as someone taking what I've said seriously and thinking about it, even if it's in a way I hadn't intended or thought about. Then I can respond and clarify, or not.

    Of course I think that you are entitled to your opinions. I have never said that you weren't. I am not judging you, I am engaging with you to exchange ideas.

    I am sorry that your teen years were troubled. As you had painted them, I took it that you had been pretty fortunate. Your problems with your amom may certainly have had nothing whatsoever to do with adoption. Lucky you. One less thing to worry about.

    My aparents didn't allow me to voice questions about the very stuff that is fundamental to being adopted. I am finally getting those questions answered by my natural brother. So I find it very condescending that you said the following:

    "Wow!!!! Me too Newhall. How weird is that? Oh wait, maybe it's because we're both adopted. Did you ever wonder if your mom may be famous? I did, because her name is the name of a famous actress that I like. I wondered also once if my math teacher might be my mom since she was short, had red hair, and nobody liked her but me. Turned out she wasn't. Damn, eh? That would have saved me so much trouble searching."

    You could have summed it up better with a "Duh, dumbass!" Because that's how your tone comes across. Tone, as well as word choice, can display the lack of care and responsibility that are so important to you: "It's the lack of care and responsibility I'm talking about in my post."

    You wrote, "I shudder to think how this adoption blog and forum society would have messed with the "teen me". It's messes with me now!"

    You expressed bewilderment that I took this to mean that you were concerned about negative things in the forums and blogs. I don't remember it being common practice to shudder to think about positive things. Okay, perhaps that is your practice. I'm open to it. But the rest of your paragraph expresses concern about a pile of negativity:

    "I see bullying, tunnel vision, words that are twisted, a poorly worded sentence in a multi paragraph post attacked, and I see intimidation, all of which are part and parcel of this way of communicating and if you put yourself out there it's a risk you run. I know this, and I can take it. My issue is, what is it doing to young people who are trying to find their way? Trying to make it through one of the hardest parts of life?"

    You know, life is messy. People aren't always nice. People twist words and refuse to own what they've said or done, or act superciliously all the time. I see this at my job, and in my community, every day. In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I think that teens know this already. Those on the forums and blogs see our behavior and decide for themselves which models they care to emulate. We can't clean up the world and make it a sterile environment without anger, rage, or sadness for impressionable youth. It would be nice if we could, and we can protect them when we can. But if they feel those emotions, they absolutely need a place to vent them, to feel seen and heard.

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  24. Newhall you wrote that I said, "You say you "shudder to think" what "negative" thoughts about adoption would have done to the teen you." and that is not what I said. What I referred to was behavior on blogs and forums and never once mentioned the word negative, never mind negative thoughts about adoption! I understand use of quotations but I am not alright with people twisting and misquoting which is one of the major points of my blog post. Quoting someone does help a person understand which part of a statement is being addressed but what you did was misquote which completely changed the nature of what I was saying. That's not acceptable to me. Mistakes can happen but when they do it's my opinion that the person making the mistake should own it.

    You say you're not judging me and I'll take that at face value. It's unfortunate that it feels very much like you are, and have been.

    My tone regarding the thoughts of adoptees was intentional. It was in direct reaction to your words, "I am so glad that you felt happy and sheltered and loved and cared for in your childhood. But this is not the case for everyone. You say you "shudder to think" what "negative" thoughts about adoption would have done to the teen you. Well, some of us had "negative" feelings despite coming from pretty sheltered, loving, and cushy backgrounds (in other words a "positive" adoption). Certain thoughts were always there inside me: wondering who I was born to be, rather than who I was adopted to be. Whom I resembled. Whose talents I inherited. And so on."

    This came across as full of tone directed toward me and yes, I reacted. Those types of feelings are not unique to you or me, my best guess is they're likely universal to anyone who doesn't know who their biological family is. Just because I am not negatively affected by being adopted doesn't mean I'm not an adoptee, entitled to my voice and my feelings. I've never once said people who are affected shouldn't have a voice. They should! I feel badly that they've been affected and for me it extends to all concerned, not just adoptees which is another thing that makes me "unpopular" with adoptees such as yourself.

    I'm well aware that life is messy and that people aren't always nice. You and I are doing a very good job of providing proof of that now aren't we?

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  25. We are obviously incapable of agreeing. Fine. I will leave you to think what you will. I have tried to engage in a polite way, but you find me obviously rude. The feeling is mutual.

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  26. For those from a particular forum who continue to send comments regarding my post please know I'm reading them. I more than likely won't post them as they're so specific, not to mention they misrepresent my commentary there. I've reread all my posts and for the most part they were generic at best and nothing I'm ashamed of.

    I repeat, this blog post that has provided an opportunity to attack me is not directly related to that forum. It's the atmosphere everywhere, including my blog now.

    I see how the members support each other there and I can see how it's therapeutic and helpful to most. I have no argument and support it wholeheartedly but it's obvious my feelings and words don't fit in, and that's ok. I had already figured that out after the way the last thread I commented on unfolded.

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  27. Why did you remove my comment of all of them? That totally sucks. I feel that I was the most straight-forward in trying to explain what exactly it was that the confusion/frustration was all about. I was not attacking, rather simply trying to explain, because there seemed to be some miscommunication. I guess I'm a little shocked, I've never had a comment removed before and feel that I was unfairly singled out, of all the comments you chose to remove mine, which was not inflammatory or accusatory, simply explanatory.

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  28. Sorry Jenna. You're right in what you're saying I'm just concerned about how specific the comment was. I understand that you were trying to explain and the only reason I removed it was concern for others involved.

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  29. Campbell and all you lovely people out there,

    First, Campbell in a very real way, you are right. And in a very real way, you are wrong.

    Teens will listen to strangers, yes, but they also are well aware, thanks to the internet, that there are a lot of unhappy people out there. So, protecting them from themselves will not help them in the real world. At the same time, as responsible (used very loosely) adults, we should remember that just because there is a world that you, Campbell, did not experience, does not mean we have to push their faces into it either.

    Wrong in that you don't know what it is like to be a first mother. So, in telling a teenager that it is the right choice - which I believe I saw several times in responses, etc. - for her or him to allow adoption or give up their child, you are condeming them to a life that you know nothing about.

    Some adoptions are exactly what they were meant to be. I believe this, sincerely and most definitely. Unfortunately, most are not. The majority of adoptions are not for the best reasons and leave a child vulnerable to very negative living conditions.

    Also, as I read it, I realize that you mean the best, but you come from a world that for most of us does not exist. Many more than you want to believe - middle class America. Having lived for a long time, I know that most people do not live in that class, most live in a world where struggles of daily living can overwhelm.

    There is also the fact that you out of hand and deliberately dismiss the simplest thing - genetics. Whether you want to believe it or not, genetics are what created the core of your being. For you, apparently, your adoptive family are close enough in genetic memory to have few issues with internal adjustments to familial culture. Things like depression, as you stated, are sometimes genetic. But so is sense of humor (yes, fact), ability to handle certain kinds of stressors and thousands of little things that are all part of you, how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you.

    So, when talking about adoption, the best that I can say is this: Adoption should not be shrouded in hushed voices and half-truths, it should only be when there is a real need, and it should be (for the first parents) a decision that is made with all the facts. And, dear Campbell, the fact is that you can pretend it had no bearing on your first mothers life but it did. It always will. So, for a teenager who is pregnant, scared and alone the "choice" of adoption is not a choice at all, because choices of that magnitude should be made with all the facts, ugly or not, and not with the belief that all will be beautiful or all will be ugly. And most of all not with the lie that we (mothers) ever will forget and we never really move on.

    So, maybe, in spite of the dark side - LOL - of adoption it is a good thing that there is a voice out there with more than just the party line for, by your own admission, a large number of very unethical and uncaring people.

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  30. Hey Lori

    "So, in telling a teenager that it is the right choice - which I believe I saw several times in responses, etc. - for her or him to allow adoption or give up their child, you are condeming them to a life that you know nothing about."

    If this means you think you saw me tell a teen(s) to give up their baby(s), nooo way! Would never, ever do something like that, not in real life or online, especially online...that's the point of my post.

    I understand genetics and am as curious as the next guy about who I look like, although I now think I know what bmom looks like and aging ain't gonna be pretty. She appears much healthier physically than my mom though. Oh well, I may eventually look older than my mom (by adoption) but at least I haven't inherited the crazy gene.

    I also understand nurture and environmental influence.

    I absolutely agree that adoption shouldn't be shrouded in hushed voices. I never shut up about being adopted and now about about my letter to bmom, seeing pictures, all that I've learned here online about birthmothers, adoptees, aparents. Funny you say that though, one thing I've observed is more than a few online people who are very vocal online seem very private about adoption in their "real" life.

    Oh yeah, the part about it having no bearing on my bmom's life (not sure if I said exactly that but whatever) she said that, not me. She said she doesn't pine away for me, cry on my birthday, think about me everyday. I was just relieved to hear it.

    As always Lori, thanks for the assessment of my post.

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  31. I've reread my post for what feels like the millionth time.

    I can't see what all the fuss is about. It's merely an observation of the internet (with a focus on adoption) and how hostile it can be. How people are bullied and intimidated, and about the lack of rational, mature discussion. About telling young people whom we don't know what to do. It's not directed at any particular venue or particular group of people, I read lots of stuff by all types of people. It's about how teens may be being affected by our, us adults, behavior and treatment of each other online. I don't say adoption shouldn't be talked about but instead criticize the manner in which it is. In my pea size brain I don't see how this point of view is controversial, or even arguable.

    I do feel remiss in the fact that I did not address one group of people that frighten me so much that I can't even stomach reading their blogs. I'm referring to the overly "religious" people that say everything is God's intention, that people get pregnant because God wants others to have their children, or whatever it is that they say. Oh man, how I hate "God wanted it that way because..." rationale, for anything!

    In a sad way I think some of the comments that I've gotten support my assessment of this (adoption) blog world.

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  32. Hi Campbell,
    I came to your blog by way of a prospective adoptive parents blog that you post on. I've been lurking for awhile, reading some of your other posts.
    Please don't take this the wrong way buy you remind me a lot of my mom(she's adopted) and how she feels about her adoption.
    And now to my point, as someone who is an AP and reads a lot of adoption forums and blogs, I found this particular post dead on! I've seen too much of what you wrote about.

    I've seen so many comments to a young, expectant mother to the effect of "you're horrible if you keep your child, what could you possibly give them at your age" or "you're a horrible person for giving you're child up because they will grow up to hate you." Similar comments are made to teen adoptees to the effect of "your real parents are your birthparents" or "how could you consider contact that horrible woman who gave you up."
    These types of comments make me cringe, and they come from all sides of the adoption triad. People writing these have no idea the emotional state the person on the other end is in. They only know their own feelings and are projecting them onto this person.

    Like you I find myself either not commenting at all or recommending these people seek out counseling.

    I'm so glad I found your blog and will continue to read.
    CP

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  33. "Funny you say that though, one thing I've observed is that more than a few online people who are very vocal online seem very "private" about adoption in their real life."

    Because it's too easy to be negated, silenced, dismissed by people in real life.

    At least, that is how it's been in my experience of trying to educate the outside world.

    Of course, I don't endlessly praise adoption, either. ;)

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  34. Mei Ling : ) I love your comments and posts. It always seems like you've really read what your commenting on and your posts always touch me.

    I see what you're saying about getting a different reaction depending on your view of adoption. I didn't think of that.

    As far as me endlessly praising adoption in real life, that's a bit of a stretch. For sure I'm not against it and until lately I didn't much think about the downfalls, repercussions, or corruption. I just didn't know. Given my experience, which is all until this point I've had to go by, it seemed like a great solution to a sad/difficult/tragic/impossible/terrifying (you pick the word) situation. I still think it can be. Things is, it's obviously often not.

    If you want to find any redeeming quality in my "voice", maybe you can find it in the fact that I am now aware and I still have no problem talking about adoption in real life. Who knows, maybe hearing about the "dark side" of adoption (as it's now become known around here) from someone who's not suffered devastating consequences as a result of it may have an impact. Or not.

    One thing I know for sure though, I am just as adopted as anyone else, which makes my outlook and voice as important (or unimportant) as anyone else.

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  35. Hey CP, thanks for commenting. It seems like you understood what I was trying to say.

    Hmmm....I remind you of your mom, eh? And she's adopted? Maybe we're sisters ; )

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  36. HI Campbell,
    My mom is in reunion with her birth mother and has been for about 7-8 years now and to my knowledge mom was the only one given up. Typical story of the BSE, (very) young, unwed, no family support. Wouldn't that have been a story though, family found through blog!
    CP

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  37. "As far as me endlessly praising adoption in real life, that's a bit of a stretch."

    My point was to convey that any time an adoptee attempts to criticize adoption or point out a negative aspect of it, they are silenced.

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  38. Oh yeah, that'd be some story CP!

    Has your mom's reunion gone pretty well? I guess likely so if it's been that long already.

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  39. Yes, sorry, I get that Mei Ling.

    I thought you were saying that it's easier for me to talk about adoption in real life because I "endlessly praise adoption".

    Thanks for clarifying.

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  40. Hi Campbell,
    my mom's reunion is going very well. They stay in contact pretty regularly.
    My mother is very pragmatic, so there wasn't as much stress over the meeting as other adoptees might have (based on what I've read elsewhere).
    Mom also has 8 or 9 other half-siblings (trying to name them in my head right now), so its been pretty interesting for her to go from having just a brother to being part of such a large family. They have all been very welcoming to her (and us).
    I think for my mom there came a time where she finally felt that she did indeed want to know who her bio family was and what medical history she could get. It started there, and grew.
    I don't want to get into too many details on a public blog about my mother's story. Mom always knew the circumstances of her adoption (which were accurate), accepted them and had no regrets about them. Nor does her mother -- that doesn't mean that she didn't miss my mom or that she didn't love her, it was just simply the best decision she could make at that time for both of them.
    The one thing I've learned over the years is that every adoptive story is different. I wish you the best of luck in your search. I plan to keep reading as I really find what you have to say importnat. I will definitely send my mom this way.
    CP

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  41. Hi CP, thanks for your last comment. I read it, went to respond and seem to have lost it somehow, sorry!

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  42. Oh, there it is. You're right CP, your mom sounds quite a bit like me, just with waaay more relatives lol.

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